James Young DHC Silver Cloud
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TOPIC: James Young DHC Silver Cloud

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #16

Moderator
Park Ward perhaps?

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #17

Platinum Boarder
If the drawing represents a series 1 car, it will be by H J Mulliner and only Two cars were built to prototype the design for production.


If it represents a series 2 car, it will be Park Ward.


Rollerman.

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #18

Platinum Boarder
I can reveal that it is a series 1 car, or better a Bentley S1.

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #19

Platinum Boarder
I might just as well reveal the whole story.


The winner of this quiz is: Routemaster Theo, this car is a Park Ward Bentley S1, congratulations, you won the eternal fame of the RR society.


Sorry Andy it is not a Mulliner and Kevin, i.m.o. you are wrong on both counts.


Coachbulder Park Ward was fully acquired by Rolls Royce in 1939, and from that moment on they were more or less the in-house coachbuilders, also making all kinds of prototype and one-off models. Also one need to understand that Rolls Royce decided to sell complete cars after WWII, taking a bigger share of the profits, meaning that primarily standard body packages were available. The number of coachbuilders and their activities quickly diminished. Coachbuilding and bespoke cars was still an option upto the Silver Shadow, but one by one they went out of business and in 1961 H.J. Mulliner merged with Park Ward to form MPW, fully owned by RR.


By the way, most of the prototypes built after WWII had a Bentley radiator, the story goes that RR did this on purpose. Should the car fail, the failure was on Bentley and Rolls Royce had an escape. After WWII RR policy brought the Bentley production down to very low numbers until the eighties when Bentley more or less rose from its ashes.


What about this car? It is chassis B568FA, a one off.


According to a RR company memo by RR manager Dr. Llewellyn Smith of 16th Nov 1957, the idea was considered to offer a DHC, adapted from the standard steel saloon by Rolls Royce itself.  This car was built to get a reflection of the relative cost involved and its economic feasibility. Therefore Park Ward built this prototype, design 950. The first DHC built on a Silver Cloud 1/S1 platform. Here are the pics of this car in real life, and the only difference between this one and a Mulliner DHC is the different shape of the rear quarter light, which was more rounded.





When the hood is down, there is no difference with H.J.M. coachbuilding:





To cut the story short, the production was considered way to expensive and therefore abandoned. Next RR gave H.J. Mulliner permission to produce Rolls Royce SC  and Bentley S DHC's at its own expense, and just one month later the first H.J.M DHC was ready on the Mulliner's premises. Park Ward got their hands free to produce Continental Bentley models instead.


Kevin, the only S2 Bentley DHC's built by Park Ward were (different chassis) Continentals S2's (Korenental):


Last Edit: 4 years, 7 months ago by Ecclesley.

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #20

Moderator
Finally good news after a disappointing morning (see my last entry about the scam)
When can I collect my eternal flame (by the Bangles isn't it?) Gerrit?

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #21

Platinum Boarder
The eternal flame is for the Unknown Soldier (The Doors), yours is eternal fame, which is the equivalent of a free milkshake in the Namac restaurant.
The following user(s) said Thank You: RoutemasterNL

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #22

Platinum Boarder
TheRollerman wrote:
If the drawing represents a series 1 car, it will be by H J Mulliner and only Two cars were built to prototype the design for production.


If it represents a series 2 car, it will be Park Ward.


Rollerman.
 


I agree, B568FA (delivered March 1959), pre-dates in delivery terms the Two HJ Mulliner cars (B101LGD and B20HA I was referring to above) and while we know the input of Park Ward into all Post-WWII cars, I had not considered B568FA to be credited to them, so thank's for bringing that to my attention.


Park Wards input to motorcar manufacture is more than the History books tel us as their involvement with the whole Siam project and Alvis cars testifies. I expect if we could see the archives of Park Ward we would find more cars with more than just their fingerprints on them.


B101LGD (delivered May 1959) and B20HA (delivered July 1959) are prototype cars credited to HJ Mulliner.


Right, next quiz please...!


Rollerman.

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #23

Platinum Boarder
TheRollerman wrote:
TheRollerman wrote:
If the drawing represents a series 1 car, it will be by H J Mulliner and only Two cars were built to prototype the design for production.


If it represents a series 2 car, it will be Park Ward.


Rollerman.
    


I agree, B568FA (delivered March 1959), pre-dates in delivery terms the Two HJ Mulliner cars (B101LGD and B20HA I was referring to above) and while we know the input of Park Ward into all Post-WWII cars, I had not considered B568FA to be credited to them, so thank's for bringing that to my attention.


B101LGD (delivered May 1959) and B20HA (delivered July 1959) are prototype cars credited to HJ Mulliner.


Right, next quiz please...!


Rollerman.



 


Always willing to bring you up to date Kevin. I like to share "the knowledge" with you. When it comes down to RR/Bentley stuff we might have a pair of shoes from the same hide.


The fact that two Mulliners were ready so shortly after the Park Ward model makes me suspect that Mulliners were already working on a DHC before RR knew about it or gave them any kind of permission.


Although they needed the Pressed Steel company to provide the adapted panels, next the car had to be sent to Crewe for painting and the fitting of the mechanical components before Mulliners could install the convertible equipment.


Or maybe RR was eating from two plates at the same time, saying nothing about it to PW. I know that PW's quality was sometimes prone to criticism; nevertheless they made some very interesting prototypes. I can show you more if you like.


 


You like another quiz, well maybe you can beat RR Einstein Theo with this tricky one, tell me what it is:


Last Edit: 4 years, 7 months ago by Ecclesley.

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #24

Platinum Boarder
Ignoring the Rolls-Royce grille, it looks like a series 3 car because of the 2041 body design, but with a series 2 front (design 991).


A mixture of Park Ward (the front) and HJ Mulliner Park Ward (the rest).


Looking forward to the reveal!!


Rollerman.

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #25

Platinum Boarder
It is MPW design 990, chassis LSGT557C


Originally this design 990 was sketched by Vilhelm Koren for a Park Ward Bentley S2 two door hard top saloon on a Continental chassis, see picture. But it was rejected by RR management; you will notice this sketch shows no chrome strip, also not present on the S3.






The car in question was specially commissioned by an American, William Dick Jr. , his Sr. father is called the "big dick" .  He wanted a two door Silver Cloud III hard top saloon with a Koren body but with S2 Continental headlamp styling and a chrome strip. Another one off.


The relationship between RR and Koren was always a bit of a tricky one. On one hand they respected him but then again there was a lot of resistance towards his designs.


I am not sure but I would not be surprised if RR management had  51% votes in favour of the Korenentals and 49% against. Koren was enraged by the fact that RR changed his design on the SCIII, not so much the headlamps, but the chrome strip. He left RR shortly afterwards.


Later on Vilhelm Koren was credited  because of breaking new ground with these 990 and 991 designs which led to the succesful acceptance of the Blatchley designs that followed the Silver Clouds. Or better say the straight body lines of Shadows etc.


 


I have another one for you if you don't mind, maybe familiar maybe not?


The following user(s) said Thank You: CollectorandrestorerMark

Re: James Young DHC Silver Cloud 4 years, 7 months ago #26

Platinum Boarder
By the way Kevin, the last car is an HJM S2 Continental Fastback, the only one made.


Production of HJM fastbacks stopped after the S1, but this was a special order. It has the lower radiator which gives it away.
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