Firstly, the regular Silver Jubilee bus is not at all rare - as with most 'royal occasion' commemoratives, the actual quantities sold were vast, and because it was bought as a souvenir, more survive in unplayed with condition. The Woolworths variation is slightly harder to find but by no means rare either.

The one here for sale may have come from the factory or may have been made up afterwards. Unless there is provenance or it is distinctly different (i.e. an obviously factory-applied different colour, it really is more of novelty interest and I would suggest that the seller's bids already represent a good price...!

To give an insight as to how odd variations could exist, I shall relate a conversation I had with the long established toy dealer John Gay. John goes back to the pioneering days of toy collecting in the 1970s (i.e. before mainstream manufacturers paid any attention to adult collectors). John realised that he could sell promotional versions of certain models and famously commissioned the Binns Road factory to make him special editions of the Bedford CF van and the Atlantean bus. He explained to me that he was happy to accept from the factory any oddities they might make up using leftovers of labels and finished castings. His official commissions of the Atlantean bus included the Kennings version in pale blue, and another in white, as well as a red version with the Routemaster LT stickers. When I visited him a few years ago, he showed me a silver one with yellow pages stickers. he explained that it was one that had been included in an order, obviously made up from a silver jubilee painted casting and the yellow pages stickers. I actually bought that one off him and owned it for a while - it didn't cost me megabucks and I sold it a few years back with the provenance, again not for a fortune - just an interesting collectable with a history

can we at least agree that the Atlantean shown is actually a Daimler Fleetline and named incorrectly?

RVREVO wrote:


They were made at the same time, but as stated in my post above, both exist inj large quantities.

I've never heard anyone claim that the model is actually a Daimler Fleetline. The Daimler Fleetline and Leyland Atlantean were both bus chassis offered by British Leyland in the 1970s which were bodied by one of the specialist coachbuilders. The Dinky model depicts a standard Roe-bodied bus and quite frankly as no chassis detail or badging is provided could either be a Fleetline or an Atlantean. They call it an Atlantean and it only ever carried generic livereis so I can't see the point in claiming it's a Fleetline...!

I think Jacques might disagree...

got the info from his DVD Encyclopedia.

Indeed Jacques is an expert on Dinky Toys but I would suggest that my own interest in British buses possibly exceeds his...!

It's always good to get to the bottom of these things but all I can say is that the Dinky casting contains no compelling featurs that would make it a Fleetline.

The saga continues on the pre pro Atlantean history vs Fleetline and I await the next episode eagerly.

Thank you for your expertise

I just had to ask, but I'm satisfied now.

if the bus could be both, this is how it should look being based on a Daimler Fleetline:

The Manchester 31ft Daimler Fleetline



THE PARK ROYAL-ROE SALES DIVISION, which handles the products of Park Royal Vehicles Ltd. and Charles H. Roe Ltd., has plumped for an all-double-decker display at the Commercial Motor Show which opens at Earls Court, London, on September 20.

A total of seven vehicles, all two-door buses for one-man-working on rear-engined chassis, will be on display, either on various stands in the exhibition building itself or in the demonstration park. On the adjoining Park Royal and Roe stands there are to be four vehicles-a 33ft Leyland Atlantean for Sheffield Transport Department, a 31ft Daimler Fleetline for Manchester City Transport, a 33ft Daimler Fleetline for Leeds City Transport and a 30ft Daimler Fleetline for Birmingham City Transport.

A second identical Leeds Daimler will be on the Daimler stand, while on the Leyland stand there is to be a 33ft Atlantean for Plymouth City Transport. The seventh vehicle is to be a 33ft Atlantean for the Leyland demonstration fleet.

Although it is fair to point out that all the vehicles have been on order since long before the Ministry of Transport's standardization scheme was published, wide variety of thinking is evident, and four quite distinct designs, with few parts in common, have been used.

The Sheffield, Plymouth and demonstration vehicles are to the new Park Royal standard design, which incorporates what may be described as "medium-large" side windows, together with a vee-shaped treatment of the driver's windscreen and upper-deck front windows using flat glass. The glass-fibre domes are of the type giving a smooth finish on both outer and inner faces. 

This design broadly conforms to the Ministry of Transport standard for a 33ft double-decker and it is hoped that it will not require more than detail modification as the standard is developed in the coming year or two. The floor is almost flat, with a height of 2ft 4in from ground level over most of its length but rising to just over 2ft 6in over the rear axle.

The Manchester vehicle will, of course, be to that operator's own recently introduced style, with generally rectangular lines, long window bays and an ultra-deep curved glass driver's windscreen. Much of the design is broadly in accordance with the Ministry specification, but the staircase faces the wrong way and the overall length lies between the 9.5 and 10 metre standards. It is anticipated that later 10-metre vehicles for Manchester will have forward-ascending stairs.

text and drawing taken from this website:

http://www.brindale.co.uk/ach/prv_site/publicity/bus_and_coach_sep-68_new.htm

I heard back from the seller and this is what he wrote me on the Povenance I asked about.

My
pleasure Jim. I do not have any provenance other than the fact that it
was described as such by the Auction house I bought it from. They are a
reputable company so I decided it was genuine.

If anyone wants more info on Daimler Fleetline & Leyland Atlantean body styles, just google both with 'images' added. You will see pages and pages of pictures both types, and amongst them a number with body styles that have the characteristics of the Dinky model. The simple fact is that the Dinky casting is actually too crude to be tied down to a specific one!

As a generic toy 'Atlantean bus' of the time it fits the bill, which is why, in the absence of more detailed models it proved popular with bus enthusiasts in the 70s for repainting in all sorts of liveries at the time.

Again, Andyman, your information is appreciated. I am learning lots in this thread about buses I have never seen in real life.

There are those differences within the frame work of both buses. Like the rear side window and the vent windows above the main glass area which are totally different in design. The other is the castaway shape of the rear and the rap around front window shifting the front A pillar. Having referred to these differences the actual body design shape is probably about the same.

You can see the difference and it is quite clear when placed side by side [or up and down] like we see here.

if you really want to see the difference try comparing it to the Matchbox Londoner which hails back from 1972. It appears to be very similar to the drawing.

Ofcourse it makes the Jubilee bus much more of an antique.

























the red light is a reflection of my camera distance gauge for the auto-focus.

The London Bus by Matchbox No 17 and the K15 was modelled from the Leyland Titan. Again there is some differences regarding the basic windows to be followed up on. With the Daimler bus No 74 has he roll over rear roof line curving or sloping down the rear end panelling and I suppose that is a different model than the Dinky anyway although the front window looks basically the same.

As most of the images contained in my books is limited references to the AEC  Routemaster of London and Liverpool Transport History. So I have to rely on the Net and TC of course for information.